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Post by cactustts on Jul 31, 2007 0:01:59 GMT 8
My red dragon became very red recently. It is almost all red except the new leaf.  The Green dragon also turned red after a few weeks of hot weather. The old leaves don't really looked green dragon any more.  |
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Post by tarence on Jul 31, 2007 8:28:05 GMT 8
TS: don`t get angry if i ask stupid question yah since you are a VFT expert.....this is NOT the red dragon from sg buloh rite ? this is the original red dragon ? I`m asking coz my sg buloh `red dragon` looks exactly like this, with the little green line as well.
How come so many leaves dried up all of a sudden for the green dragon ? btw, what`s a green dragon ? *smile* i dunno leh.
The hot weather lately has been `kind` to some of our plants I must admit, allowing them to show their `true` colours....
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Post by hongrui on Jul 31, 2007 12:03:18 GMT 8
TS: i think the green dragon is might be mis-labelled or something. it looks too red to be a green dragon. tarence: here's a website on VFT cultivars and varieties. |
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Post by cactustts on Aug 1, 2007 0:48:24 GMT 8
Tarence: 1st, I'm not expert, please don't use that word on me. 2ndly, what to angry, yours look like mine, then I should congratulate you. This is the original red dragon. I have the Sungai Buloh red form too, (as what I showed in other thread), but mine doesn't show this red, I grow them in the same condition. Yours must be getting alot of sunlight. Green dragon is a cross between red dragon and typicals. The leaves are not dried all of a sudden, it's just that I didn't trim the old leaves. This one seems to grow much slower than the red dragon.
Hong Rui: I agrred with you, I will think the same thing if I'm not informed earlier by the grower that green dragon will look almost the same as red dragon if it gets sufficient of sunlight.
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Post by tarence on Aug 1, 2007 8:58:09 GMT 8
i`ll try to post a pic of my sg buloh red VFT for comparison when i can TS...cheers. later in the evening at home......here are 2 pics of 2 diff pots of sg buloh red which i have....do they look similiar to the all red original ?   btw, TS, any `secret` tip in not trimming off the dead leaves for your VFT ? |
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Post by cosmoking on Aug 4, 2007 18:03:52 GMT 8
Hi cactusst, Im afraid the first picture is most likely not a Red Dragon-it seems to be another red clone such as "Royal Red"-Red Dragon produces quite a lot of long, aerial traps as well as some ground hugging ones whereas clones such as Royal Red always have ground hugging traps throughout the year, which is what your plant seems to be doing. The second pic looks like another fine red clone-what it is Im not sure. Very well grown plants though-keep it up!  |
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Post by cactustts on Aug 5, 2007 23:52:28 GMT 8
Hi cosmoking, Thanks. I don't think the plant is Royal red because the store I bought this from is only selling 3 types of VFTs since six years back, they are red dragon, green dragon and dente. So there is no possibilities it's been mislabelled, the only possibility (if there is a case) is only between the red & the green dragon I'm afraid. Cheers TS |
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Post by cosmoking on Aug 6, 2007 0:04:33 GMT 8
The names supplied by commercial stores are usually incorrect-if you are buying from a garden centre or a commercial superstore, you should never trust the names on the labels or the instructions on the labels. Your "Green Dragon" is definetly mislabelled. If it was a genuine Green Dragon, there would not be a trace of pigment. The flower stalk would also be pure green in all stages of development and never have a pinkish tinge, not even when it first emerges(on a typical VFT, the flower stalk is initially pink or red but fades to green as it grows) I still have doubts that your "Red Dragon" is genuine-stores sometimes adopt names like these for similar but incorrecly labelled plants-but it is a very nice and robust clone that has been well grown.  |
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Post by cactustts on Aug 6, 2007 0:21:06 GMT 8
I got this from a well known overseas on-line-store, I suppose (and hope) they won't mislabelled it. Your last reply mentioned "flower stalk" twice, do you mean petiole? because my plant doesn't grow any flower stalks. Anyway, thanks for your complements.  |
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Post by cosmoking on Aug 6, 2007 5:29:23 GMT 8
Nope not petiole-although the petiole should be completely green at all stages aswell(including when it just emerges) in order for it to be a true Green Dragon. (From looking at your pic they are reddish when they first emerge) Would you mind PM'ing me the name of this online store? Not saying they arnt good or anything-even if they are really really good there things will still get mislabelled every now and then. |
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Post by hongrui on Aug 6, 2007 12:22:54 GMT 8
hi cosmoking, you mentioned that "clones such as Royal Red always have ground hugging traps throughout the year". may i ask where did you come across this information?
my VFT 'Royal Red' does not always have ground hugging traps (for the past 9months it's been all erect traps), and a check on Bob Ziemer's CP photo finder shows 'Royal Red' to have mostly erect traps?
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Post by cosmoking on Aug 6, 2007 19:30:05 GMT 8
When "Royal Red" first came out it was described as a clone with red leaves and rather large traps with the traps interior being even more red in colour-it was also described as being "Ground Hugging" throughout the year. If you have The Savage Garden, it will also have that in there, but that was written in 1997 so different clones of Royal Red have probably come out since-if you self seed a red clone of a VFT for example, some of the plants wont be red at all-they will be green! So the reason most Royal Reds have aerial traps now is because they are different clones of the original, but still retain the same name. |
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Post by hongrui on Aug 6, 2007 20:22:10 GMT 8
cosmoking, i'm not seeking an argument but my copy of "Savage Garden" doesn't have anything about Royal Red being ground hugging. the only description of 'Royal Red' i've got, (from the Carnivorous Plant Database maintained by the ICPS, here) states it is "[d]istinct from other varieties (sic!) of [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}] in that all parts of the plant, with the exception of the margins of the traps (see fig. 12), are dark red in colour (RHS 59A). [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}] produces rosettes of petiolate (<= 85mm long), bi-lobed (<= 26mm long * <= 17 mm high), decumbent to erect leaves, the size of which varies with season. Do not exhibit any physical differences to other [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}]. Green margins and red inner surfaces of the trap are characteristics common to both [Dionaea ' Royal Red ' {AUPBR 464}] and the normal form of [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}], and it is the colour of the other plant parts which make [Dionaea ' Royal Red ' {AUPBR 464}] distibctive. Plants in winter dormancy and those grown in conditions of low light may lose some of the red pigmentation (as do most other carnivorous plants), but still retain appreciably more red pigment than typical [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}]." As you know 'Royal Red' is patented and the above description is what is recorded by the patent office. thus the original 'Royal Red' already has "... decumbent to erect leaves..." and so shouldn't have been described as being 'ground hugging throughout the year'? |
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Post by cactustts on Aug 7, 2007 0:19:09 GMT 8
Nope not petiole-although the petiole should be completely green at all stages aswell(including when it just emerges) in order for it to be a true Green Dragon. (From looking at your pic they are reddish when they first emerge) Would you mind PM'ing me the name of this online store? Not saying they arnt good or anything-even if they are really really good there things will still get mislabelled every now and then. As what I have mentioned, this store is only selling red dragon, green dargon and dente since 6 years back, till now still selling only this three forms. The chances of mislabelled other than this three is slim or I should say almost impossible. Sorry, I can't PM you the name as I don't want this to create any unhappy situation. Shouldn't this a place to have fun? But what I should say is it is a reliable store. Cheers |
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Post by cosmoking on Aug 7, 2007 4:10:05 GMT 8
cosmoking, i'm not seeking an argument but my copy of "Savage Garden" doesn't have anything about Royal Red being ground hugging. the only description of 'Royal Red' i've got, (from the Carnivorous Plant Database maintained by the ICPS, here) states it is "[d]istinct from other varieties (sic!) of [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}] in that all parts of the plant, with the exception of the margins of the traps (see fig. 12), are dark red in colour (RHS 59A). [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}] produces rosettes of petiolate (<= 85mm long), bi-lobed (<= 26mm long * <= 17 mm high), decumbent to erect leaves, the size of which varies with season. Do not exhibit any physical differences to other [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}]. Green margins and red inner surfaces of the trap are characteristics common to both [Dionaea ' Royal Red ' {AUPBR 464}] and the normal form of [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}], and it is the colour of the other plant parts which make [Dionaea ' Royal Red ' {AUPBR 464}] distibctive. Plants in winter dormancy and those grown in conditions of low light may lose some of the red pigmentation (as do most other carnivorous plants), but still retain appreciably more red pigment than typical [Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}]." As you know 'Royal Red' is patented and the above description is what is recorded by the patent office. thus the original 'Royal Red' already has "... decumbent to erect leaves..." and so shouldn't have been described as being 'ground hugging throughout the year'? Oh, I must have got it wrong then, I must have been thinking of a different form ;D But the plant in the picture does look like a ground hugging red form of some sort-you can tell for certain because it will never produce any aerial traps Also cactusst, you'd be surprised at the amount of mislabelling going on-I know someone who ordered a Sarracenia flava and got a large Drosera binata! There is not a single plant store in the world that doesnt do it. Sory to dissapoint you but your "Green Dragon" is definetly not a "Green Dragon" otherwise every single part of it would be completely green. I would definetly email the store and ask them about it. |
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Post by cactustts on Aug 8, 2007 1:02:42 GMT 8
Hi Cosmoking, what made you so sure of this plant is not a green dragon? Do you have this plant, mind to show yours? hmm..... I think forget about it, a same clone might look different in a different growing condition especially for VFTs (except for the really distintive form like cupped trap). As what I've have mentioned, before I bought this plant, through our conversation the seller already told me that this plant will turn almost similar to red dragon when it get intense sunlight. Your plant (if you do have one) may look as what you have just said, but that doesn't mean mine will look exactly like yours, what if your plant was also been mislabelled too? The seller only sells 3 forms of VFTs (don't tell me they named it wrongly, as they already selling this form for so many years, if it's named wrongly, many customers might already complained, and they might not be selling this form any more), chances of mislabelled is very low, I bought two green dragons and three red dragons, the two green have grown axactly the same pattern, and the three red grew the same but different pattern from the green as what I posted in this thread. Two forms growing two different patterns. If the mislabelling is between these two froms (the only possibillity of mislabelling), how do you explain the two different growing pattern?
Everyone on earth could be wrong, don't be too sure on anything. You could be wrong too like what you have said about the royal red, you were very sure initially until hongrui proof to you. I'm not here to insist on my plant is a true form but I have my reasons why I say so. I hope you are not angry if I have said something wrong, that's only my thought. Anyway, as long as we are happy, be it a red dragon or green dragon, we are still happy with it.
My philosophy, don't ever take things too seriously, what to disappoint? Don't you think so?
Cheers
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Post by cosmoking on Aug 9, 2007 19:59:26 GMT 8
Nah Im not angry-I dont get angry very easily. Well like you said if you're happy with it it doesnt really matter what it is-like I said before its a very well grown and nice plant. So I dont think theres a point in debating any longer over what it is- if you're happy with it then that matters the most. |
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Post by cactustts on Aug 9, 2007 22:46:16 GMT 8
Hi Cosmoking, I think that's the point we are all here, to share something we are happy about and also sometimes something we feel bad or sad about like plants don't grow well or even die. |
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