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Post by lamentime on Jun 15, 2008 7:48:12 GMT 8
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Post by plantlover on Jun 15, 2008 11:33:52 GMT 8
Nice pitchers.
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mat29
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Post by mat29 on Jun 15, 2008 12:07:13 GMT 8
It'd be even better if it were grown properly.
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aliamyz
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Serious Nepenthes Collecter
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Post by aliamyz on Jun 15, 2008 12:16:12 GMT 8
Please post a pic of a mature pitcher lamentime.
Nice hybrid.......good growing
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Post by lamentime on Jun 16, 2008 7:21:58 GMT 8
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mat29
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Post by mat29 on Jun 17, 2008 17:25:51 GMT 8
I have a sneaking suspision with all the gold water and hokus pokus you feed your weeds that you won't see a pitcher like that.
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Post by lamentime on Jun 18, 2008 0:02:13 GMT 8
It's only a small rooted cutting as of yet. Time will tell. It certainly needs just a bit more light to get pitchers like that.
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mat29
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Post by mat29 on Jun 18, 2008 4:42:46 GMT 8
orrrr MayBe It NEdes A tRuK loAd oF fErTiLiSer oN iT. with some water absorbing crystals, you really notice the difference. ;D.
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Post by lamentime on Jun 19, 2008 7:18:09 GMT 8
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aliamyz
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Serious Nepenthes Collecter
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Post by aliamyz on Jun 19, 2008 7:47:09 GMT 8
The peristome is so beautiful........!!LOL
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Post by phissionkorps on Jun 19, 2008 8:05:52 GMT 8
How did you "pretty much confirm" it was the same one? I'm pretty curious as to how you came to that conclusion. Unless you got it as a cutting from his plant, the chances that they are the same are slim to none.
Maybe you just mean it should display the same characteristics? That wouldn't be something you could prove or not. Either it would display those characteristics, or it wouldn't, and at this point, it has yet to. I think your plant is too old and the pitchers too cylindrical for it to exhibit such a drastic change in morphology, especially this late in the game. Plus, these are all from seed, so they're bound to be widely variable.
A nice plant, but I highly doubt it is going to get that squat.
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Post by lamentime on Jun 19, 2008 10:36:43 GMT 8
Very good observations, but a little off. Nepenthes don't always make the same shape pitchers, it can always be variable from pitcher to pitcher, depending on the individual. Robin's plant, in fact, does make very cylindrical pitchers too, more of the maxima shape. The picture most know his plant by is of it's zenith in size, while other pictures of his same plant have smaller, more cylindrical pitchers. The one I show here is actually pretty round from the side view.
While the other features are pretty spot on as far as I can tell at this small stage, there is still no guarantee of it being the same clone. If he received it as a seedling as he thinks he did, then it is different than the other similar clones that appear from Michael/Rainforest and EP. If they are not from the same plant, then the likely possibility is that they are from the same grex. Most likely crossed with Malaysiana's squat, red pitchered, striped peristome veitchii (Bareo I think). I know EP has done maxima x veitchii crosses with that veitchii with plants looking like the ones we're discussing. Philcula also has the same clone/grex. So either way, they have very very similar features and likely the same parentage, if not the same clone.
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mat29
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Post by mat29 on Jun 19, 2008 15:47:28 GMT 8
Go phissionkorps. ;D Blacker than the ace of spades you are.  |
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Post by phissionkorps on Jun 20, 2008 3:05:23 GMT 8
I don't doubt they're from the same grex. Coloration and patterns are similar. Wings and their spacing, etc are similar. They do look like siblings, but don't look like the same clone. The first pic is from an upper-right angle, so it gives an illusion of being round, but pics 2, 4, and 5 show it is pretty cylindrical. Of course pitchers on even the same plant can be polymorphic to some degree, it's usually not much at all, unless you're talking about from a tiny seedling to the pitchers it makes after its a few inches across, or a drastic change in conditions....which depending on the plant, still might not change the pitchers too much. My point was that unless you know it is a cutting from the same plant, it's impossible to confirm, or nearly so, that they are the same, unless you just mean a product of the same cross. Sure, that's probably the case, but that is no guarantee it will look like Robin's ever. Think of all the variation in the lowii x ventricosa grex, for example.
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Post by lamentime on Jun 22, 2008 2:37:21 GMT 8
Aesthetics are and always have been the devil, when it comes to typifying Nepenthes. Looks can tend to be very deceiving. I do, however, have a good track record of identifying Nepenthes. While my plant has some of the same key qualities as Robin's, by virtue of their origin, I cannot say it is the same clone. It all depends where his originally came from. Same grex, or grex with similar such parents is a must. Veitchii hybrids closely follow the nature of the veitchii parent, particularly in the color department (peristome and pitcher body). For a maxima x veitchii to display this much red coloration and peristome striping, I can only assume it is a form similar to (or exactly) Malaysiana's red pitchered, candy cane striped veitchii clone. If Geoff participated on this forum, I'm sure he'd be able to tell much more about where these crosses were made. Beyond that, there isn't much point in going over it unless you want to  . Lowii x truncata is a very bad example to use, because of the polymorphism that exists with lowii and its hybrids. Lowii can vary wildly in its pitcher shape and form, especially in transition from lowers to uppers. This also carries on to hybrids like lowii x truncata. I have sent a lot of lowii x truncatas through my orders, and subsequent pics from the growers have shown drastic changes in what those pitchers look like. You cant loom at a pitcher and tell verbadum if that individual plant it is identical to another. It really doesn't work that way. You have to look at features that would remain consistent with most pitchers on the same plant, and features that set it apart from most other plants. Shape is variable, color is more consistent given the same light and pitcher age, length of the peristome/pitcher neck varies pitcher to pitcher, peristome shape is not so consistent. That is then all variable depending on the species/hybrid. There are as many variables to the phenotopic expression of a Nepenthes pitcher as there are genes that govern those traits. It requires a bit of intuition I guess... And as I said, the pitcher is round from the side, narrow from the front. Only one angle (the very first pic, first post) is a direct side view. The rest are lesser angles, so of course they look less round. Unless you are saying I need glasses when I'm holding the plant in my hands? |
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Post by lamentime on Jun 22, 2008 3:19:09 GMT 8
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Post by phissionkorps on Jun 22, 2008 4:06:37 GMT 8
Yeah...I said lowii x ventricosa  . I think all lowii x truncatas look pretty close to the same at comparable ages. Lowii x vent all look different to me. PDA, Briggsiana, and Jeff Schaefer all look different from each other, as well as different from the other seedlings of the crosses (lowii x burkei = lowii x vent). Yeah, his plant does look more cylindrical in those other links. Tough competition that month. |
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Post by lamentime on Jun 22, 2008 4:21:36 GMT 8
Yeah...I said lowii x ventricosa . I think all lowii x truncatas look pretty close to the same at comparable ages. Lowii x vent all look different to me. PDA, Briggsiana, and Jeff Schaefer all look different from each other, as well as different from the other seedlings of the crosses (lowii x burkei = lowii x vent). Yeah, his plant does look more cylindrical in those other links. Tough competition that month. Oops, my mistake  . I actually haven't paid attention to different clones of lowii x ventricosa, so I can't really say how they differ. But I'm glad you kinda see what I'm saying (I think)  . |
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mat29
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Post by mat29 on Jun 27, 2008 18:49:16 GMT 8
How U goin Nathaniel. Still workin at the Tyre warehouse?. |
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. I think all lowii x truncatas look pretty close to the same at comparable ages. Lowii x vent all look different to me. PDA, Briggsiana, and Jeff Schaefer all look different from each other, as well as different from the other seedlings of the crosses (lowii x burkei = lowii x vent). 
. I actually haven't paid attention to different clones of lowii x ventricosa, so I can't really say how they differ. But I'm glad you kinda see what I'm saying (I think) 
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